Acne Cure Guarantee : Coenzyme A - Pantethine
82When you go for any treatment for acne starting with natural remedies or other alternatives and reaching to chemical prescription drugs, their competitors will make you doubtful about either their effect or their safety, presenting you their best cure of acne.
You may be wondering - like me - if there are all those cures, why do we find new cures every day?. Well, all what the competing people are saying is true, there is not a one single treatment deals with the underlying cause of the condition - which is not a disease - they either deal with the symptoms or violate the body to change its normal behavior with a lot of side effects.
Here you will read about the basic requirements for your body not to develop acne, and why it acquires it, thence any light treatment of the developed symptoms will cure acne for ever.
The recommended regimen here is aimed at relieving symptoms of acne, it is to be used temporarily and for a short time. Long term use of high doses of these supplements may induce side effects, and some of them may be serious. If you plan to use them for a long period consult your doctor.
How Can Your Body Not Develop Acne
As explained in Try The New Acne Cure, the body of the growing people in their teens requires synthesis of huge amounts of hormones which are fat in nature. Synthesis of these hormones starts with COENZYME A, which is the central molecule in human metabolism, since many major metabolic pathways start through it ( such as energy production, fat synthesis and degradation, and Acetyl Choline synthesis).
When the body faces a situation of a high demand of an essential nutrient, it choses to maintain the physiologically more important end products, and to slow down the less important metabolic pathways. In our case the body accelerates synthesis of sex hormones and slows down oxidation of fats in certain areas (the skin).
In other words, the human body during growth deals with a huge amount of fats (synthesis and degradation), and this in turn requires large amounts of Coenzyme A. If the body have large amounts on Coenzyme A, acne will not develop.
How to Boost Synthesis of Coenzyme A
Synthesis of Coenzyme A requires 3 precursors:
- ATP (energy source for almost all metabolic reactions)
- Cysteine ( an amino acid that is supplied by food or derived from Methionine which is another amino acid that is essentially supplied by food)
- Pantothenic acid ( a vitamin that is present in foods)
ATP is at its highest level in the human body during the growth period ending in the early 20s, since it is produced mainly from fats under the influence of Growth hormone.
Cysteine is a sulfur amino acid that is supplied by food, or derived from the essential amino acid Methionine.
Pantothenic acid is a vitamin (vitamin B5) that is avialable in all foods in trivial amounts.
To boost production of Coenzyme A, we need to supply the body with extra amounts of both Pantothenic acid and Cysteine.
When Dr Lit-Hung Leung tried Pantothenic acid alone, it needed to be given in very high doses to capture any free Cysteine and forms Coenzyme A. We can reduce the dose of Pantothenic acid by 90% if we concomittantly administered Cysteine.
To boost synthesis of Coenzyme A, take both L- Pantothenic acid ( L-Pantothenic acid 500mg three times daily) and L-Cysteine (L-Cysteine 250 mg three times daily) every day.
Where To Find These Supplements
- Acne Facts
Revise the details of the supplements.
Other Supplements that Help Cure Acne
The direct precursor of Coenzyme A is a compound called Pantetheine, which is now produced in a solid stable form called Pantethine. By using it we can reduce one metabolic step. It has another advantage of being sustained over time, because its elimination is delayed since each molecule should be split first. Some people are using Pantethine to cure acne, as they say at Acne.org.
Another supplementis L-Carnitine which helps speed up oxidation of fats to produce energy.
Other supplements that help cure acne includes Chromium, Zinc, Vitamin E, Vitamin A, and Vitamin B complex specially Lipoic acid.
Where to Find These Supplements
- Acne Facts
Revise the details of thses supplements.
 | Amazon Price: $25.18 List Price: $45.31 |
 | Amazon Price: $9.97 List Price: $23.00 |
How can We Guarantee Cure of Acne
Boosting synthesis of Coenzyme A by administering (L-Pantothenic acid+L-Cysteine), or Pantethine, will cure acne or make any complicated acne more readily cured through the traditional therapies, like antibiotics for infected heads, exfoliating treatment, remedies ...etc.
Acne does not necessarily occur to every individual, if any one who develops the first pimple or white or black head, takes the recommended supplements he will kill acne before it is born.
In fact any teenager should be proactive and think of supplying his body with abundant amounts of Coenzyme A, by taking these supplements.
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Its evident in many corners of the world that acne not only affects those in their teenage stages but rather even those in their maturity and little children. To keep yourself on the safe side off acne here are some of the day to day things that could help us.
Cloth; You should avoid garments made exclusively of Lycra and nylon if you are prone to body acne since some synthetic fabrics can strap the heat and moisture against your skin. This creates a fertile breeding ground for the bacteria that contribute to acne.
Get out of wet clothes. Don’t be sweaty or wet. Shower off immediately and change into dry clothes before you proceed with other chores. If this isn’t possible, change into dry clothes and wipe down as well as you can. Always use a clean towel and blot gently rather than wipe. Vigorous wiping can irritate your skin, driving make-up and sunscreen deeper into the pores.
Equipment; Sport equipment may cause acnes to some people or even get their lesions aggravated. The best way to solve this friction related breakout is a good outfit. Make sure your wetsuit isn’t too tight under your arms or your helmet doesn’t slide around your forehead. You can prevent equipment triggered breakouts by lining your helmet with a layer of soft, washable cotton fabric; it’s a great use for old t-shirts too. It’s also advisable that you keep your equipment clean all the time even when not in use.
However, incase you are infected, its good that you go for a cream that will give remedy for your problem.
pretty good article i was wondering if there where any more specific articles of what you can eat in order to reduce the acne ane well known natural products to use. Thanks
Amazing acne article, very informative.
Hello Mr Waheed,
It's an eye opener article for me, thanks alot. I do have some queries however.
1) I couldnt find neither B5 nor Panthetine in the market (im from Malaysia) and I cant even have them ordered from the net.Do you think it's enough to eradicate the acne problem by just the consumption of L carnitine as that the only thing I could find in the market?
2)Is it safe to take Panthetine during pregnancy?
3) Would you advice the consumption of both L carnitine and Panthetine?
Thanks for taking the time to answer these queries.
Lidia Tan
Mrs Lidia Tan,
Thanks.
- B5 Or Pantethine is crucial for acne cure
- At least during the first trimester of pregnancy, don't take anything
- Yes you can take Pantethine and L-Carnitine together but it is not a must
Thanks for this article. I ordered Pantothenic Acid 1000mg (not L-pantohtnic so I hope it's the same?) tablets and L-cysteine 500mg. I will try this and see how it works. I don't like the way Accutane is making me feel!
Are we required to take a b-complex while following this regimen?
Hi vh,
Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
It is not must that you should take B complex vitamins, but if you like to do, go ahead it does not do harm.
Good Luck.
how much vitamin b5 and cysteine is safe to take in a day?
Hi sam,
Vitamin B5 is taken in doses up to 10 g/day, but it is better to take it in 2-3 g/day. For cysteine, it can be taken within 1.5 g/day.
sorry i have a few more questions...
does it matter if i take l-cysteine or N-acetyl-L- cysteine(NAC)? are either of them fine?
for how long is it safe to take 2/3 g of b5 and 1.5g of cysteine a day? years? months?
thanks
Hi sam,
L-Cysteine is what I have tried. As for the doses, they are supplements that can be taken as required, you can decrease the dose or stop the treatment whenever you feel better. Acne is supposed to appear as bouts and you may take the upper limit of the doses during these bouts.
i have some questions. is pantothenic acid and pantethine the same or different? which do you think is more effective with l-cysteine? what is the success rate for this regiment? if you're not sure guess:) i would really like to know. also is just doing b5 pantothenic acid alone not good enough?
i have been dealing with acne for 9 years and have tried accutane. i recently tried the b5 pantothenic acid but it made it worse. i read that there are side effects like dry skin and eyes, headaches and nausea, as well as loss of hair.
i might have a hyperthyroid. do you think this may be a contributing factor to acne?
thank you for your answers:) i really cannot deal with this anymore.
Hi moonlight24,
Thanks for the visit.
Pantothenic acid is a precursor of Pantethine, the body needs the former to produce the latter. The body uses Pantothenic acid+L-Cysteine to produce Pantethine.
When the acne is without complications then the success rate is 95%.
B5 alone is recommended in very high doses reaching 10 grams/day, and this may produce the side effects you have mentioned. Adding l-cysteine to pantothenic acid reduces its dose largely to be only 1-1.5 g/day.
Hyperthyroidism may be associated with cystic-acne, but this needs lab investigations, or it needs a physician.
I wish you the best of luck.
thank you :) so pantothenic acid is what you take and your body does the rest:) what exactly did you mean ' when acne is without complications?' is the 95% success rate based on the panto. 500 mgs and cysteine 250 mgs? what if you just take coenzyme A pills?
How would you recommend taking pantethine, L- cysteine, and L- carnitine; like how many milligrams and how often a day? i read that L- carnatine was good as well. do you think i should add L- carnitine or do you think pantethine and L- cysteine are good enough alone to have good results? also do you think it is better to take pantothenic acid or pantethine? thank you again for your answers=) it means a lot:) i know i have a lot of questions, i am just really hoping to find something that will help me.
Hi moonlight24,
- I mean there is no scars or fibrosis, because the suggested treatment deals with the stored fat in oil glands.
- Yes 500 mg Pantothenic acid and L-Cysteine 250 mg, three times daily.
- Coenzyme A is the ultimate solution. Pills sold on Amazon called Coenzyme A contains what is called COENZYME A MODULATOR MATRIX I, Pantothenic acid, Magnesium and Calcium. Really I don't know what is Coenzyme A modulator matrix, but if it ends with Coenzyme A it would be an excellent solution.
- Try Pantethine and Carnitine, and you can even try this Cenzyme A thing alone.
i will try the Pantothenic acid 500mgs 3xs a day, L-cyctine 250mgs 3xs a day and the L carnitine. how much would you recommend for the L carnitine?
i looked up the coenzyme A and amazon does sell it but it's kinda expensive. i don't know if it would work, i just really hope the regiment we've been talking about works for me. do you think Pantothen the all natural acne supplement pill is any good? or do you think the regiment is more effective?
Try L-Carnitine in the recommended dose within 1g/day.
The all natural pills collect what "could" benefit acne, just go this regimen it is tried.
thanks soo much=) i will try the regiment when i get some money:) i will let you know how it goes:) how long do people typically see results? i do understand that everyone's body chemistry is different though:)
Dear moonlight24,
Here is the practical experience of one of my readers in his own words:
http://elqalatawy.hubpages.com/hub/Causes-of-Acne-
under the heading Cysteine and Panothenic acid Practically
thank you=)
i don't quite get the acne complications regarding the scars and fibrosis. what do the scars and or fibrosis have to do with the 95% success rate? would scars and fibrosis decrease the success rate? what do you mean by fibrosis?
Fat accumulate in pores as whiteheads, blackheads, pimples.., and the treatment helps the body digests and absorbs these fats. When the condition is just accumulated fat, the success rate is 95%, if the body adds connective tissue to the lesions(fibrosis and scars), the treatment can't change it alone.
got you:) so another treatment such as cleansing, moisturizing, which hazel, murad, proactiv, or any other treatment regiment that works for you will finish the rest correct?:) I have cystic acne so the chances of scars and fibrosis are high huh?
Hi all. I am following up on my results so far using l-cysteine and pantothenic acid. To clarify, I am using Kal brand 1000mg time release pantothenic acid, and twinlab 500mg l-cysteine.
I am the one who left the message that was used in this article also, for those who are interested.
After taking 4 doses a day of cysteine 500mg and PA 1000mg for 5 or 6 days, as I said above, I was extremely clear but was getting very chapped lips and felt a little too dry, so I decreased to three doses a day for a week or so.
After that, the results were still good, but they did seem to be slightly fading. Then I tried taking 4 doses a day again, and now after a week or so it is working well, but not quite as well as before. Maybe my body has adjusted to the dose somewhat? So I decided to follow waheed's advice and now I am taking 8 grams of PA a day total, instead of 4, spread throughout the day. I am taking 500mg of cysteine with the 1st, 3rd, 5th, and 7th dose of PA. I will do this for a week or two and check back in. Sorry this is long, but I wanted to include all important details.
Hi jhwilso 1,
Thank you for sharing your experience. To make it clear for readers, I re-publish your message here. By the way, I wish you the best of luck.
Here is the message:
"Hi, I wanted to let you know how things are going with the l-cysteine.
I have taken 500 mg of l-cysteine 3 times a day along with 1 gram of pantothenic acid 3 times a day. I did this for two weeks. After that the results were very good, though not quite perfect. So I decided to increase to 4 times a day of 500mg and 1 gram of PA and see what happens.
Well I can happily say that after only 4 or 5 days I am COMPLETELY clear, and my body as a whole feels a bit dryer. But here is the thing. On about day 6 my skin is feeling a little "sunburned" and my lips are getting chapped like crazy. I assume this is the treatment working "too well".
So here is my question to you. Taking 3 doses a day seems to be very good but not quite perfect, and 4 doses a day seems to be too strong. Should I just try staying with 3 doses for a longer period of time, or maybe take 2 grams of PA instead of one with each dose of cysteine? I want to know what you suggest for this type of issue.
Also I really want to thanks you for making this info available to me. I have never been this clear before ever since I started getting acne and this is the only thing I have ever tried that can actually work "too well"."
I recommended that he may increase the dose of Pantothenic acid since it is currently used in a dose of 10 grams daily in some acne treatment plans. On chemical basis the reaction needs more amount of pantothenic acid in grams than it needs cysteine, according to calculations involving molecular weight of the two substances.
I also recommended that he takes care of his skin the regular way of moisturizing, sun protection....etc.
jhwilso 1,
Why don't you try Coenzyme-A-Technologies sold on Amazon. It contains It contains 1000 mg of Pantethine, Pantothenic acid, L-Cysteine, Calcium Pyruvate, Magnesium Malate and L-Acetyl Carnitine. Here are the details:
regarding the coenzyme-a-technologies, I have tried another product before from this company called clear skin image, which is supposedly made specifically for acne. After about two weeks I noticed very little difference, and saw the coenzyme-a product and wondered why they would not recommend it for acne, since as you say it contains all the necessary ingredients together in one place.
For now I will continue to work with PA plus cysteine since it is continuing to work well, but if any others do try it please let us know how it goes.
By the way, how many do you think you would you need to take per day for it to be effective?
Also, does anyone know if it is better to use regular pantothenic acid with cysteine or a time release type, or if there is no difference? The time release brand I currently use seems to work well, but I would like to know what others think.
jhwilso 1,
As for the slow release brand, it saves amounts that can be wasted when not utilized by the body, consequently it is more effective. Go the way you do now.
I cordially wish you good luck.
jhwilso 1,
I just forgot to tell you not to take the mega doses for very long time, just improve the condition and then stop.
Leave a room to balance other B-complex vitamins and consider probiotics and probiotics, and eat yogurt.
Thanks for the heads up. Although I have had no side effects so far (other than the overdryness issue) I will keep that in mind.
I will check back in a week or 2 with a follow up.
Concerning l-cysteine brands, the twinlab brand seems to work well, but is somewhat expensive. Has anyone tried other brands, and if so how well did they work out?
It has now been about a week since I started taking 8 grams of PA and 2 grams of cysteine a day, and basically the same thing is happening that happened before. I am feeling a little too dry and my lips are getting rather chapped again.
I am also very clear, but I have noticed that when I get "too dry" I will get some small breakouts associated with it. Not serious at all and they go away fast, but it is still worth noting. It is similar to what will happen sometimes with topical products that if too much is used it can actually overdry and make the symptoms worse, although it is more mild and short lived with this regimen.
This type of thing has never happened before when only using pantothenic acid, even when using 10 grams a day. (In the past I have used 10 grams a day for about a year straight with basically no side effects, although the results were never as good as recently since I added cysteine. I think this is a testament to how well the two products work together. Concerning l-cysteine brands, I have done a little research and from what I see the twinlab brand is one of the best for this treatment, and I will continue to use it, despite the slightly high cost. The results are more important to me at this point in time.
I will continue to work with the dose levels and find just the right amount where I get minimal acne and also have no side effects. For anyone reading this, I can confidently say that treatment regimen, at least in my case, can work extremely well, but you may need to allow some time to work with the dose levels and find the "sweet spot" that works best for you.
Good luck to all
jhwilso,
Why don't you try L-Methionine? It is the precursor of L-Cysteine but it is not involved in keratin (protein of the epidermis) as much as Cysteine, it is also an essential amino acid. I think its impact on the skin is less than cysteine.
All what I want is that the regimen keeps acne in bey, thus it can be only used in breakouts. I don't like the idea of continuously taking supplements.
With l-methionine, is the recommended dosage the same as with cysteine? I will perhaps try that instead in the near future.
L-Methionine can be taken within 1 gram daily.
Have you tried methionine yourself, or do you know if it will actually work as well or better than cysteine?
In fact, I started the trial with Methionine because Cysteine was not available to me, I always thought that Cysteine would be better, as it is not indirectly produced from Methionine and would directly enter the reaction but it seems that biochemistry is not that simple!
well I just recently ordered some l-methionine (swanson brand) and will let you know how it goes when it arrives.
Would it be ok switch directly from using cysteine one day to methionine the next? Hopefully it will not cause any problems.
I am looking forward to trying it and hoping it will work just as well if not better than cysteine does.
Would switching from a food that is rich in Cysteine to a food that is rich in Methionine do any harm? Everything will be OK! Don't worry at all.
Sounds good, thanks for all the info. I will report back after using it for a week or two and comment on the results.
Just for clarification, what is the main difference one can expect from switching to methionine from cysteine? Is one more effective than the other, or does methionine tend to give less side effects?
Sorry if this sounds redundant, but I like to have as good an understanding as possible as to what I am taking.
jhwilso1,
You are welcome any time. I feel committed to save you any untoward effect, just feel free to ask whatever you want.
Cysteine has an -S-H group and this is an active group that can react freely without enzymes with molecules having an -S-S group, this later group is present in many enzymes and proteins, and it is very abundant in Keratin- the main epidermis protein, once this bridge is broken the protein spacial-configuration may be disrupted affecting the protein structure or function.
Methionine has this group as -S-CH3 group which needs enzyme regulation to react, it may act as antioxidant against molecules having the S-H group (except Cysteine of course). You have a bonus of using Methionine, that is, its liver protecting effect.
Interesting. So as far as acne is concerned, is one generally more effective than the other, or is methionine recommended because it has less of a tendency to cause side effects?
Methionine has less tendency to cause side effects.
Concerning the relationship between the two, is cysteine created from methionine in the body? From the sound of things, it seems methionine is simply the better way to go, since it is just as effective as well as giving less side effects, so it seems that using methionine is basically an all around better method to use if it is available to you.
To anyone who is trying to cure acne though, I can tell you from experience that this is quite possibly the best way to go about doing it. I have dealt with acne for about 10 years and have tried a great many things. It has never really been severe, but quite persistent, and it is very relieving to finally feel as though I have found the answer.
jhwilso1,
Yes Cysteine is made from Methionine in the body, Methionine is an essential amino acid that should be supplied in the diet. I will write about my experience to use it locally to cure acne.
Good luck.
I have started taking methionine instead of cysteine today. Before switching I was taking 1.5 grams of cysteine (3 x 500mg) which is the upper limit you described. The overdryness side effect has largely subsided at that level.
For the sake of consistency, I have started taking the same amount of methionine, 1.5 grams (3 x 500mg) so I can have a clear comparison of the effects between the two. I will check back in in a week or two and see how the results are going. Hopefully it will work just as well if not better than cysteine has been.
One other thing I have been wondering, with cysteine or methionine, does whether or not you take it with food have any bearing on the effectiveness?
With cysteine, it sort of seems to be stronger if I take it on an empty stomach, and I was wondering if you know of methionine to be that way or not.
thanks again
May be taking Cysteine after meals will make a room for the reaction between its -SH group and -S-S- group in foods, but in general I prefer taking supplements after meals which may act as a barrier between them and stomach wall, to avoid any effects on the stomach.
Proceed the way you prefer but is it that much difference?
I think you are right that the difference is minimal, but I am just curious as to the best way to take the supplements.
So far so good
The pantothenic acid and l cysteine did not work for me. I gave up on it. I have been doing some research then I found an herb called guggul. It might be something worth looking into. I decided to write back to let other viewers know that the pantothenic regiment did not work for me.
I have been using methionine for about a week now instead of cysteine. The results are still very good, I am about 90% clear, and there are some subtle differences between what I've noticed from using the two. Where cysteine gave me more of a dry and smoothe feel to my skin, it seems methionine gives more of a normalized feel, and perhaps even a little smoother.
The only side effect I have noticed is a little bit of a flushed feeling after a couple of days, but it was very mild. Other than that, so far it is working quite well overall. I will wait until about the 2 week mark and check back again.
Just out of curiosity, does l-carnitine have any benefit when taken with pantothenic acid and methionine, or does it only really help with pantethine?
L-Carnitine will accelerate transport of fatty acids across the mitochondrial membrane, so fat is oxidized more efficiently and is supposed to help get rid of fat. It is just a matter of cost.
When taking l-carnitine, is it taken 3 or so times a day, similar to using the other recommended products?
Yes, it is taken as a supplement.
I have been discussing this treatment with some others on acne.org, and was asked if there is any benefit to taking methionine and cysteine together at the same time.
I assume it will not really matter, but what do you think about this?
One more question that keeps coming up with others. Do you know if any of the regimens listed here have any risk of losing effectiveness after a period of time? It is not fading for me yet, but do you know of any instances where that has happened?
jhwilso1,
No need for cysteine to avoid the dryness you had described, actually methionine will give the body its needs of cysteine.
I did not experience a situation that this regimen had lost its effectiveness. It is the same process all the time. When antibiotics lose their effectiveness, this is due to the adaptation of microorganisms, they elaborate a way to resist the effect of an antibiotics, it is an external factor but here it is the same body with the same protocol.
Would you kindly give me the URL of this thread on acne.org?
I was asked to create a new thread on the topic there. It is here
Using l-carnitine, what is the recommended daily amount to take?
Take it within 1 gram daily. There are 500 mg tablets that you can take them twice daily.
The reason I ask is that using my current regimen, I remain about 90% clear, and can't seem to get completely clear unless I get myself to the "overly dry" point, like I detailed before.
So I plan to try adding l-carnitine to what I currently use and see how that goes.
Go ahead. I wish you good luck.
Concerning cysteine and methionine, you recommend to take up to 1 gram of methionine, and up to 1.5 grams of cysteine. Does this mean that 1 gram of methionine actually gives the body as much total cysteine as taking 1.5 grams of cysteine directly?
It is not calculated this way because Biochemistry proceeds in cycles, everything is recycled except the wastes. that are excreted. If you ask with the purpose of exceeding Methionine intake you can eat foods rich in Methionine like, egg white, Parmesan cheese, seeds, nuts, fish or soy protein isolates that are high in methionine.
The idea is that supplements containing individual nutrients are relatively new, and we do not want to rush into taking them in high amounts.
Is it possible that when adding l-carnitine, it may cause similar issues that I experienced when taking too much cysteine, and I may need to adjust the dose until I find the right level to take?
I am wondering because, now after taking methionine for about 2 weeks (3 5oomgs), I have started to get some of the overdry feeling again (and some of the light breakouts that come with it). It is to a lesser extent this time than with cysteine, but is still present. There is also some light flushing of the skin. I am still very clear for the most part though (about 90% or so).
jhwilso1,
I searched for overdose or side effects of both Methionine and Cysteine, and I did not find anything except that Drugs.com mentioned that:
"Check with your doctor if any of these most COMMON side effects persist or become bothersome:
Drowsiness; nausea; vomiting."
I found no interaction between Methionine and Carnitine.
Thanks for the info.
Although both cysteine and methionine definitely help with this process, I'm beginning to think that cysteine may actually work slightly better, at least in my case. Maybe it seems that way because getting some of the drying effect is actually a good thing? It is odd because I have seen several others who also say they think methionine is better to use.
In any case, I will keep with the methionine a little longer and see how it goes. Soon I will try adding l-carnitine, and possibly switching back to cysteine as well.
jhwilso1,
Would you describe to me this dryness in details?
Do you know anybody else using cysteine or methionine? how do they feel?
jhwilso1,
If you search for something to accelerate metabolism, why don't you take PYRUVIC ACID (PYRUVATE) instead of l-canitine. It is the molecule that binds Coenzyme A to enter Krebs cycle to produce energy?
The dryness basically feels like a reduction in skin oil. When I first started taking b5, I noticed my skin to be less oily and dryer. In other words, more "normal" like it used to be before I ever got acne.
After adding in cysteine, I noticed an even greater reduction of oil levels on my skin, and that it turn just makes it feel more dry and smoother.
After two weeks now of using methionine, I can safely say that it also works well, but my skin doesn't feel quite as dry as it does with cysteine, and consequently I get slightly more acne. It is not a huge difference, but just large enough to be noticeable.
This is a really great discussion here. I have another adjuct that I was hoping to get your opinion on, ATP (Adenosine Triphosphate). I know that Pantethine converts with ATP to form Coenzyme A. They now make supplemental ATP. Swansons sells softgells of 125mg of ATP. Would taking ATP with Pantethine increase the level of Coenzyme A more than taking Pantethine alone?
Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Hi Earl,
You are welcome to our discussion.
Theoretically yes, because we accelerate the reaction by affording more of its precursors. The point is that these supplements are relatively new, and we can't make any conclusion unless it is actually tried.
I would be pleased to know the experience of anyone who has used ATP for that purpose.
The thought of adding ATP for this purpose is interesting. I will try l-carnitine soon and see how that goes. Perhaps in the future I may see about trying ATP, but if anyone else does let us know how it goes.
Also, I have switched back to using cysteine instead of methionine, and after only a few days I can tell it is beginning to work a little better. Why that is I don't really know, I suppose it takes a bit of trial and error to really understand how the biochemistry behind all this works.
On that point, concerning pyruvic acid and ATP, does anyone have any idea the amounts of these you would need to take to be effective in acne treatment?
jhwilso1,
If you are in a new supplement trial, just read their recommended dose on their label, and they are mostly within 1-2 grams per day. We should take things in a gradual safe way.
I can't comment on the dose for pyruvic acid. However, there has been research on the effective dose for ATP supplementation. See the following website-http://www.peakatp.com/ For atheletic performance I beleive the recommended dose is 200mg to 225 mg. The Swanson Brand has 125 mg softgells, so two should do it. I will start taking it soon along with everything else, pantethine, carnitine, etc. I will let everyone know how it goes.
Sorry, I accidently posted as jhwilso1. elqalatawy, maybe you can fix that for me. Sorry...
Btw, elqalatawy, I am still not sure why you recommended that I take Methionine with Pantethine. You stated,
"Theoretically you do not need these amino acids with Pantethine, however practically there would be a biochemical distraction away from that pathway, so we need to support this same pathway. It is the same idea that made Pantothenic to be advised in 1000 times its recommended daily intake."
Can you explain this a little bit better for me in layman's terms.
Thank you!
Hi Earl,
Amino acids are involved in so many tracks and if one track of amino acids predominates, it will be at the expense of other tracks.
For example, Cysteine is a non-essential amino acid that is involved in many reactions. It is involved in producing Homocysteine, Cystine, Taurine, Glutathione, Insulin, and it is abundant in the protein Keratin in the skin.
If its supply (diet)is small, and it is shifted to produce more of any of these products, it will produce less amounts of other products.
This explains to you why a disease is debilitating, or a condition where healing is retarded.
Some people complained that very high doses of Pantothenic acid (10 grams/day) produced hair thinning or fall, this may be because more cysteine is involved in producing Coenzyme A, and less amounts are gone to produce Keratin.
elqalatawy, thank you for the explanation. I can certainly understand why methionine or cysteine would be necessary to use if you were taking pantothenic acid because it might cause a deficiency if you weren't supplementing.
However, I am still unclear why either methionine or cysteine would be required when you are taking pantethine. Pantethine already is preformed with the cysteine in it. Why would adding additional cysteine or methionine help it work better or why would it be necessary to add either cysteine or methionine to prevent a deficiency since Pantethine does not require either one.
I am still open to using Methionine but would like to know how it works with pantethine and why it is necessary with pantethine.
Thank you so much!
Earl,
It is not a must that you combine methionine with pantethine. The family that are associated with acne cure includes pantothenic acid, pantethine, cysteine, methionine, and may be it is based on the theory of the more of a good thing the better.
As you can see, I did not recommend it however there are supplements that contain most of the members of this family, and after we read the complaints of jhwilso1 I think about the normal balance of these ingredients.
Humans do not master Biochemistry yet and nutraceuticals that contain one ingredient is a great tool on the way.
I begain taking -lcarnitine yesterday, and actually at the end of the first day I got a bit of an "initial breakout". It is not bad, but it is a little worse than anything I have gotten in a while. It is a little unusual to get a reaction from something so quickly, although most things do seem to hit me pretty fast.
I will give it some more time to see if things begin to get better, since I also got a bit of an initial breakout when I first added cysteine to the pantothenic acid, and after a week or so that did pass.
Just to be sure, acetyl l-carnitine and l-carnitine are the same thing right?
They are the same. Acetyl L-Carnitine is the acetylated form of L-Carnitine that was claimed to be superior to l-carnitine in terms of bioavailability, yet there is a controversy about that.
elqalatawy,
What is the controvery of Acetyl L-Carnitine vs L-Carnitine? I am taking Acetyl L-Carnitine. Which would you recommend?
Thank you!
When N-Acetyl L-Carnitine was first introduced, it was postulated that it is more absorbed into cells than L-Carnitine, then there were some researches that proved that this is not true.
While at a health food store, I came across the swanson brand of ATP for a fairly good price, and decided to give it a try and see what happens. So now I am taking b5, cysteine, l-carnitine, and ATP. After a week or two I should have a better idea of how it's going.
I have done some research on these 3 precursors of coenzyme-A, and so far it seems that of these 3, b5 will tend to have the largest effect (I assume it is the one most people are most deficient in), cysteine for most will also have a rather significant effect, (also I assume due to being rather deficient in cysteine) and ATP is not really thought to have as large an impact because most people, even those in late 30's, have sufficient levels of ATP in their system already.
In my case, I know that b5 on its own definitely helps, and when I added cysteine that made just as much of a difference (if not more). Most sources say that if just about anything, especially internal treatments, cause you to break out at first, it is a good sign, and means that your body most likely needs what you are giving it. Cysteine did make me break out some at first, and so has adding carnitine, but ATP has so far had no such effect. Perhaps my body already has a good supply of ATP, so its effect will be less. Most of this is just educated theory anyway though. Just thought I would give that info.
Yes jhwilsow, you give valuable information because it is at the practical side. As you said the experience with your experiment would be more clear after a while.
I appreciate your persistence and your insistence.
Something else I have been wondering about, is it possible to have too much coenzyme-a in your system? I feel perfectly fine right now, but I have still thought about it sometimes.
jhwilsow1,
first, congrats!
second, you will never have surplus coenzyme a because the body will always find a job for it. It may dissolve extra fat?
Interesting. So you don't think it would ever be bad for your body if you have an overabundance of coenzyme-a?
Not at all. There are several channels for common metabolites in the body and it does its best to produce ATP (through Coenzyme A), to be up to the so many biochemical reactions proceeding.
After you feel acne free, try to cut all supplements and keep them to resist the first signs of fat accumulation in the skin, you're an expert now and you can feel it as soon as they are shown.
I definitely feel like more of an expert than I used to. Someone over at acne.org asked if there any other things that supplement coenzyme-a production, and besides these 4 that I am now taking, I don't think there are actually any others.
Other than vitamin b5, cysteine, ATP, (the 3 precursors) and carnitine (as a booster agent), do you know of any others that follow this line of progress?
jhwilsow1,
This is more than enough.
Could you please give that thread at acne.org?
I cannot find it again at the moment, I will keep looking and see if I can again. However, I couldn't help but see this thread
http://www.acne.org/messageboard/index.php/topic/3
and wondered what you think about it. I have read several things like this before (and even tried some of them) but they have never showed results even close to what I have now. Is it just aiming in the wrong direction?
Also, what I am taking is called ATP, but is ADP something different? If so, how are they different?
ADP is the precursor of ATP. ADP has 2 molecules of phosphate and by adding 1 more phosphate molecules it forms ATP, and ATP is the destination of producing chemical energy in the body, as it contains the highest amount of chemical energy.
Most biochemical reactions use ATP as their energy source,
as well as ATP is recycled more efficiently.
The other adjuvants you have listed (vitamin A, vitamin E, zinc, etc.) how do those contribute to the big picture? Do they basically aim in the same direction, as in aiding the overall levels of coenzyme-a to stay high?
They integrate the whole picture. They are not only concerned with coenzyme a but they contribute to performing all the cell activities efficiently. We can refer to some of their effects on the skin, so we will find Zinc is required for some important enzymes, vitamin A helps increase epideramal cells turnover, vitamin E has antioxidant effects that helps fight pathological changes in skin lesions, as far as we know.
You should bear in mind that these recommendations are based on observations, but the whole picture is more complicated than that, for example both vitamins A and E have effects on the gene expressions.
Well now after taking l-carnitine for 2 weeks, it seems that things are still doing pretty well, but the initial breakout I had when I started is fading pretty slowly, slower than usual. Also, it seems that I am just slightly more oily, and getting just slightly more breakouts than before.
As weird as it seems, adding l-carnitine seems to be working against the overall effect some. I don't really understand this, but starting tomorrowI will stop using it and use just b5 and cysteine again. This is a little disheartening, but I suppose the only way to know for sure about something is to try it and find out. It would be nice if someone could explain exactly what is happening here, but I may just have to try and figure it out for myself.
jhwilsow1,
Bear in mind that l-carnitine introduces more fatty acids into every cell, it may shift coenzyme a or its precursors away from the skin, who knows?
Whatever the case may be, I have now dropped the carnitine. It would be helpful if I could get more direct info on what exactly to use/not to use to really maximize the effects and be done with acne for good, but unfortunately sometimes that isn't possible.
For what it is worth, I have also dropped the ATP for now, I may add it back later. Since I started the carnitine sooner than the ATP, I feel pretty sure that it is the one causing issues, so I will probably not add back in carnitine.
Do you know anyone who has used carnitine before, and how it worked for them?
Any info that you may be able to come up with regarding all of this would be great, but I'm sure you already know that. I am really just trying to pinpoint the best way to raise coenzyme-a levels to treat acne, without getting any other effects along with it that adversely effect the process, like carnitine unfortunately seems to be doing.
At this point I suppose there is not much left to try really, other than adding back ATP to see if the 3 precursors alone will work well and not cause other problems.
I think you are right. There is not much left.
Well at this point I think it is time for me to wrap this up. It has been am enlightening experience discussing all of this wih you, and I feel like I've learned a lot. Thanks for all your help.
The only thing I am still curious about is in regard to the ATP. Can you think of any reason why this might adversely effect the overall results if used with b5 and cysteine? One would think it would help. After doing some more reading on carnitine, all I can come up with is that perhaps it works better if used with pantethine, why that is I'm not really sure though. In my case it seemed to not really be helpful.
How come you have never really recommended to take ATP with b5 and cysteine? Even in your article you say that you have been recommending b5 and cysteine for over 10 years with very good results (I can attest to that) but perhaps adding ATP would help to reach the 100% mark?
If nothing else I will just stick with b5 and cysteine, since that combo is the best that I have tried so far, but after this I don't think I have much more to ask.
I did not try ATP because it has been never in my country.
It is theoretically appealing but I did not try it.
Yes it is a rather new product, but I am trying to understand how when I started with b5, I got good results, then after adding cysteine I got even better results (almost perfect), one would think that since ATP is the last ingredient to make up coenzyme-a, adding it would perfect the reaction.
The other adjuvants are a different matter, since those as you have said, may have other effects and redirect the course of the process, but I am trying to understand how ATP would not be helpful.
I will wait a week or so and then add back ATP only, so I will be taking only the 3 precursors. I guess that is the only way to really know for sure.
You have the research sense!
That is right.
If you come across anything else that you think may help us to figure this out, please let me know. Otherwise, I will check back later when I have more info.
Concerning cysteine, does the body also produce some cysteine on its own, or does it only come from diet? Most sources say the body makes its own cysteine, but supplying it with more definitely seems to help me.
Cysteine is a non-essential amino acid and this means that the body can use another amino acid to produce it, in this case the amino acid that can be utilized to produce cysteine is Methionine which is an essential amino acid, i.e. it should come from diet.
The pool of both amino acids is tight and strictly controlled by the liver.
Peptides that make protein should start with Methionine.
And in the case of ATP, the body (especially in younger people) creates this on its own, so supplementing with more should not really be necessary right?
For now I am going back to the basics. I will try what you originally recommeded me to do, which is to increase the b5 dose while keeping cysteine at 3 * 500mg a day. In the message I gave you, you said that since more b5 is needed than cysteine, that is what I will do.
It is really beginning to seem like these two things are all that is necessary to completely eliminate acne, one just needs to find the right amount of each to take.
If you can answer me this, I think that will be enough.
Do you think that using pantothenic acid and cysteine, and only those two things, is all that is really necessary to completely eliminate acne and nothing else is needed, it is just a matter of getting the dosage between the two right?
I am really just trying to get some closure on this topic, not just for my own good, but for those who may ask me about this, so I can help them as best I can. and thanks again for all your help, you have been invaluable.
Thank you jhwilsow1.
This what I've already tried.
I want you to know that I'll be always here to answer your questions.
Take care.
Thank you for your caring.
In your 10 years of recommending this, have you ever had a case where the two combined did not work? I would think not, so the other items listed may only be detractors in some ways and lead off track from the solution, as far as curing acne is concerned.
I am trying to find out if there is really anything else even necessary to spend time trying, or if b5 and cysteine are all that is needed to eliminate acne, and those two things are really all you need to spend effort working with, it is just a matter of finding the right dose levels of the two?
It is the way that worked for me.
You may try to scrutinize when this dryness occurs, is it accompanying any food that would affect these supplements?
You may find out something new.
Over time, I have never really noticed any difference in my skin or level of acne, regardless of what I eat or drink. I try to drink a lot more water nowadays, for what it's worth, I'm not exactly sure how much it helps though. My diet also doesn't seem to effect the results of the supplements in any way.
One of the few things that does seem to adversely effect it is lack of sleep, which I have gotten under control pretty well now.
What I really want to pinpoint is whether or not anything other than b5 and cysteine are ever really needed for eliminating acne. Although some of the other things listed sound good, after trying them they seem to only detract from the results that b5 and cysteine gave me.
Perhaps your original statement of taking pantothenic acid and cysteine really is the best way to cure acne, and to take nothing else with them.
Here is a question you may be able to answer for me.
If l-carnitine brings more fatty acids into each cell, wouldn't that make your skin more oily, thereby making you get more acne? I am no longer taking it, but wonder how the theory works that it would lower oil levels in the skin and decrease acne.
jhwilso1 & elqalatawy,
Very interesting discussions! I am going to add some of my experience too. I tried panthenine, ATP, Carnitine, and Methionine. My skin broke out even worse. I tried to endure it but eventually had to stop taking everything. Taking all of it at once, I was not able to pinpoint what had caused the problem. Things are starting to calm down again. I think I will have to try each one seperately and gauge my reaction.
However, I am planning on just using Pantethine for a while (Pantethinic acid + cysteine). I have been on Pantethine for a month at 900 mg with no effect whatsover on my oil production. I think I will plan on upping the dose to 3x that much for a week. If that doesn't work I will go even higher. I am a little bit worried about side effects though, especially hairloss.
However, at the same time I would also like to see some results. Tell me what you guys think of my plan.
I have been off of l-carnitine for almost a week now, and I have been breaking out a bit more than usual myself. It is pretty disheartening to say the least, especially after a period of time of having excellent results.
I personally feel that l-carnitine is not a good thing to take, as I broke out some when I started it, and now some when I stopped it. I am using only b5 and cysteine again now, and hoping that it will work as well as it did before.
I feel pretty bad that I didn't just stick with b5 and cysteine, because ever since I started trying other things (methionine, carnitine, atp) my skin has slowly gotten worse and worse, and this type of thing can really get you down, especially when I was almost completely clear before....
I just hope that if I stick with b5 and cysteine again in the same doses that I did before, I will get the same results again. Anyway, good luck to you all.
jhwilso1,
L-Carnitine brings more long chain fatty acids into the MITOCHONDRIA, where they are oxidized to produce energy.
This happens in all the cells in the body. Medium chain fatty acids do not need l-carnitine to enter the mitochondria.
The exact balance of which type and quantity of fatty acids goes to the skin needs experimenting (tests and labs).
Try adding some gelatin to your diet.
Earl,
Pantethine is a relatively new supplement with unknown side effects.
elqalatawy,
I have a sensitive stomach. I've tried pantothenic acid before but it always hurt my stomach. Now I am experiencing the same thing with pantethine. I have even tried to take it with food but it is still upsetting my stomach.
Do you have any suggestions or tips?
Please let me know.
Thanks!
Using 1000mg time release pantothenic acid pills, how long do you think each pill lasts in your system?
I'm trying to see how many you would need to take to have a constant supply of b5 in your body throughout the day.
It has been a week of using only b5 and cysteine again, and I think things are slowly getting better.
I really feel like your original point of these two items is the best bet, and it is a matter of "keeping b5 constantly in your system to be sure to capture any free cysteine." After all, you have been recommending this for over 10 years as you said with great results, so these two supplements together have a track record to work with.
I will check back after some more time, hopefully I can get really good results like before if I find the right dose level of both to take. But again, how much of a time release 1000mg b5 would you think is needed to cover a whole day effectively? I think that is a good point to start with, then adjust the cysteine accordingly until the best point is reached.
Together I still feel we can figure this out once and for all. I am in this to help myself and everyone else to find the best way to beat this condition.
Earl,
You may take the sustained release Pantothenic acid jhwilsow1 has referred to with an OTC antacid.
jhwilsow1,
The time release pills is designed to keep sustained release of the drug from 12 to 24 hours. You may take it twice daily and see. I see you become kinda an expert about this subject!
I am just trying to understand as much as I can to finally beat this condition.
How long does a 500mg dose of cysteine last in your system before it passes through and another will need to be taken, since they are not time released?
Also, I have another question. When I get reached the point before where I get "too dry" using b5 and cysteine, is it a very large amount of coenzyme-a that causes this? If so, I thought you said the body can't have too much coenzyme-a? Can you help me understand this a little better?
Earl,
I would ask that you follow the regimen that I am currently trying and use pantothenic acid and cysteine only.
In my experience, this is the best way to go to get good results. I'm beginning to think it is a matter of finding the right dose level of the two that maximizes the effect, and you want to try to reach a point where you begin to feel more dry than usual, but not too far past that point.
jhwilso1,
The blood peak level of a tablet taken 3 times daily (as recommended for l-cysteine 500 mg) may be reached after 3-4 hours after that the elimination of the drug differs with individuals, but in general it is needed to be renewed within 8 hours.
As for the other question; "too dry" means that the sebaceous gland does not secrete enough sebum which lubricates the skin. Do not forget that coenzyme A boosts both fatty acids oxidation and hormone synthesis,
also do not forget that is applicable fore all cells in the body.
Why don't you use a moisturizer or even Olive oil or Jojoba oil, they both contain Squalene which is present in sebum?
Well for now I am going to continue with b5 and cysteine as best I can, but I think I am going to try the coenzyme-a supplement sold on amazon. It sounds like just about the best solution there is in theory. Do you think it would be ok if I switched straight from b5 and cysteine one day to coenzyme-a the next?
Don't forget that Coenzyme A Supplement contains L-Carnitine, that you had complained about it before.
Yes that is true, but I am hoping that perhaps the amount it contains, as well as the combination of the other ingredients, will make the process work better. I will just have to wait and see.
Well, I have some info to report.
I just got off the phone with coenzyme-a technologies and spoke with them at length about the whole process.
What we came to is that they definitely think taking the coenzyme-a supplement will help with acne if taken on its own, but since it does not contain any pantothenic acid itself (although it does have pantethine, as well as other ingredients supposed to help) they suggest to take some form of b5 along with it.
The product contains cysteine, so when I receive it I will stop taking the l-cysteine I have and take the coenzyme-a supplement in its place (that is what they suggested).
Concerning clear skin image, they say it is an excellent product, but often needs a month or so before it really begins to work, and often does cause initial breakouts.
So my plan is to continue taking the b5 I already have since it works well for me, and to swap my l-cysteine for the coenzyme-a supplement. I will see how this goes for a bit, then I may swap my b5 for clear skin image later, since it also contains b5 (as well as other ingredients) but if things go well that may not be necessary.
That is all for now. I will update later.
Also, they recommend for the all around best acne cure to use the coenzyme-a formula, plus their clear skin image formula, because although they say the coenzyme-a on its own will help, they also say b5 tends to work better for acne than pantethine, and clear skin image contains b5, while coenzyme-a doesn't.
However, since I have a b5 brand that seems to work well, I am going to try it with the coenzyme-a formula first, which they thought was a good idea.
I do have a question you may be able to answer.
Why is it that many overweight people don't really have acne, and many thin people do (like myself). I thought it was based on fat metabolism, right? Is there more than one type of fat metabolism?
One more question, suppose I wanted to continue with the l-cysteine I already have, as well as take the coenzyme-a. Is there possibly a problem with taking too much cysteine? I probably won't take them both, but just wondering.
elqalatawy,
Does Pantothenic Acid or Pantethine work in the small intestine? The reason I ask is because I was thinking of enteric coated capsules that bypass the stomach and release in the small intestine. This would avoid causing any stomach upset. However, I want to make sure that it will be effective if it bypasses the stomach.
Please let me know.
Thank you!
elqalatawy, What do you think about all of this? You seem to know a lot of knowledge about supplements like this in general, I would like your opinion so far.
Although it appears there is a small amount of b5 in the capsules, I will continue to take the ones I have now along with it. From what you can see about the product, do you think it will be a good thing to substitute in place of my daily cysteine doses, since it contains cysteine (as well as other supposedly beneficial things)?
They seem to think it will work better, but I would like to know what you think.
One more question, just answer these when you are able, I know there are a lot.
With time release b5, is it better to take 2 at a time, or to spread out each one as much as possible?
Say, for example, I am taking 6 pills a day. Is it better to take 2 at a time (3 total doses) or 1 at a time (6 total doses). I would think 1 at a time, since from what I have heard it is best to have b5 present at all times, but let me know when you are able.
Earl,
Pantothenic acid is better absorbed in the stomach as it will be unionized, but did you find an enteric coated form of it? You can take it with food.
jhwilsow1,
- Are there statistics that relate acne to weight of people? Fat cells in overweight may secrete larger amounts of estrogen which may alleviate acne, but don't make any conclusion of that, any fact needs research.
- Take any supplement alone first to see the results and think about what next.
- If you can stand 6 times a day, it will give you a clear picture of how cysteine works.
m a 17 years girl having acne on my face my skin is oily
elqalatawy,
Thanks again for the response. Yes I did find an enteric coated form of it on Amazon - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Pantothenic-Acid-enteric-c
It looks like it is a new product and the only enteric coated Pantothenic acid I could find anywhere. They say the enteric coating gives it "improved reception". The reason I am considering it is because regular pantothenic acid and pantethine makes my stomach upset.
Let me know what you think. Btw. what did you mean by pantothenic acid being "unionized" in the stomach?
Pantothenic acid in alkaline medium (small intestines) is converted to pantothenate which is negatively charged and a hydrogen ion(proton), this makes absorption of the formed ion through the lipid membrane difficult because it is electrically charged. This does not occur in the stomach.
Any way, I am glad that you found this preparation and I wish you good luck.
I am back for an update.
For the last few of days I have been using b5 and cysteine in a similar way to how I did before for a period of time. I am taking 500mg of cysteine, 1000mg of b5, 4 times a day, spread out, and it has already started to do a bit better. I think I am getting closer to pinpointing the best way to take it.
I want to ask, would it be more beneficial to try 5 times a day of each instead of four, or to try taking 2 grams of b5 with each cysteine dose, making it 500mg cysteine and 2000mg b5, 4 times a day?
Which method do you think would show greater improvement? If I can get completely clear again (or very close) I will try slowly lowering the dose, but so far I am getting no side effects.
Concerning the coenzyme-a product, I am holding off on it for now, and may not even need to try it if I can get very good results from b5 and cysteine again. It will be unnecessary.
Basically I want to know is it likely that taking 500mg of cysteine and 1000mg of b5 per dose, I am perhaps wasting some of the cysteine with each dose?
Maybe 1000mg of b5 is not enough to completely use up the cysteine, causing some of it to be excreted and therefore wasted, so perhaps it would be best to always take 2 grams of b5 (if not more) with each 500mg dose of cysteine, so as to form as much co-a as possible with each dose?
jhwilsow1,
As long as you don't get side effects on the short run go the way you prefer or you feel it is better for you.
I want you to gradually reduce the dose as you get good results.
Ok, I will follow that advice. Between the two though, how much PA should be taken with 500mg cysteine to ensure all the cysteine is used up to form co-a, and therefore minimizing any waste?
It is good to be seeing results again though, I can tell I am on the right track.
jhwilso1,
That depends on the rate of excretion of PA in the urine, it can't be calculated precisely without lab investigations.
Move within the dose you take now and make educated guesses.
I am glad you've corrected your track now.
It has been a little over a week since I have started seeing improvement, and it is getting better and better. I do have a question though.
Are there other ways to boost co-a production (lifestyle, etc.), or does it basically come down to getting enough cysteine and b5 in your system?
Also, the coenzyme-a product says it is pure coenzyme-a, but how could that be since it contains other ingredients besides b5 and cysteine? Aren't those the only things that make up co-a?
jhwilso1,
I am glad to hear that have improvement.
There some recent findings that lack of Linoleic acid can predispose breakouts but there is no much details. There are also some reports that dairy products can exacerbate acne but I still waiting for some more details.
The Coenzyme-A product claims that it contains the exact precursors that affords the body the optimum conditions to produce Coenzyme-A.
Is it possible that since I am using time release b5 that I may be wasting some, since the cysteine is not also time release?
Maybe it would combine better with cysteine if it was just regular b5?
jhwilso1,
Cysteine pool is tightly controlled by the liver. I would like that you keep in mind that cysteine is not only used to make coenzyme a, it is incorporated in many other reactions like making Glutathione and making hair, nails, insulin ...etc, as long as you get the required result never mind what amounts are used because we can not control them yet.
I had started taking Isotre 20 mgs daily...after day 6, I noticed my libido was gone and no significant changes on my face...After reading your post carefully, I dropped that sh...and I started taking Panthethine and L Carnitine twice a day. Libido came back after a few days, my skin is not breaking anymore after 1 week of treatment even after eating certain foods that triggered my acne before but the old papules have not yet disappeared. I will increment it to 3 doses and see results in one week. Dryness can be taken care of with facial lotion. No other side effects but hard-ons in the mornings and superficial sleep... I am unsure about adding cysteine or methionine. What do you suggest?
Doc_007,
Just add Cysteine until the papules are gone, for the superficial sleep you can replace cysteine with methionine, but let us clear acne first.
Thank you very much for your response. I will start Cysteine today: 500 mgs twice a day. I have also noticed that redness from my Stereoid- induced Rosacea has been slowly decreasing as days go by. I am confident that I will find a way to finally control-cure my acne. By the way, I am also taking Crestor 20 mgs daily + Policosanol 20 mgs at nights. My plan is to eventually wean Crestor off once my LDL levels are within normal range. I have read on the internet that Panthethine and L-Carnitine help reducing LDL and total CHO while raising HDL. Maybe I will add non-flush niacin to replace Crestor later on. I would appreciate your input on the initial dosage of cysteine and my regimen for my hypercholesterolemia. Doc_007
Make Cysteine in the range of 1-1.5 grams/day and see.
As for your regimen for hypercholesterolemia I see that it is very acceptable, and by the way I appreciate your awareness of this topic. I may add that Cysteine may participate well for blood cholesterol through its effect, in increasing production of Coenzyme A.
I wish you good luck.
Dear friend, I started Cysteine today: 500 mgs twice a day on top of my current therapy. I will post my results soon. Your help is highly appreciated! Doc_007
Update--- current regimen: 450 mgs panthethine, 500 mgs cysteine and 500 mgs L-Carnitine.
Results--- skin getting clearer. No new papules!!! No side effects except dried margins of upper and lower lips which I'm controlling with lip balms and less sleep and now I wake up early easily!
Still with Rosacea's lower-forehead redness. Although better, it is still there. Do you have any other recommendation for this?
By the way, after 3 months of Crestor 20mgs + Policosanol 20 mgs, my total CHO levels came down from 399 to 251. These lab results are previous to starting your ACNE regimen. I will have my lipids checked out in a month or so. I will use non-flush niacin instead of crestor once I reach normal levels.
Thank you in advance,
Doc_007
Hi Doc_007,
I am pleased to hear these news!
Mix some Aloe Vera gel with some glycerine and apply them to your lower-forehead and the margins of your lips.
I wish you the best of luck.
Checking in again, and the results are still getting better. I have been wondering something about ATP though.
After using this treatment for a little while, is it possible that your body may begin to run low on ATP, since so much is being used up to produce the additional co-a?
So far so good for me at the moment, but have you ever known of anyone who began to run low on ATP, and needed to supplement more to keep the co-a production going?
How exactly do you know if you are running low on ATP?
ATP is an energy molecule that is replenished all the time, and unless there is an inborn error that results in a deficiency of enzymes regulating the process, this question remains a theoretical one.
When ATP is used in a reaction it is converted into ADP and both molecules have what is called allosteric activation or inhibition of the enzyme, meaning that high concentration of one of them either activate or inhibit the enzyme to control the reaction.
Compare production of Coenzyme A in our case to its production when one is running a marathon.
A question, now I have more redness on my face that I never had before. I know it is the result of one the components of your regimen. I researched and found out that Cysteine is a sulphur containing non-essential amino acid. I've had mild reactions to sulphas...Should I stop or reduce cysteine and see? what do you suggest?
Doc_007
Yes, reduce cysteine and see. You can use Aloe Vera gel for the red spots.
Is b5 used for other things in the body besides metabolism (production of co-a)? You have mentioned that cysteine is used for other things besides co-a production, but I was curious about b5 in that regard.
B5 is used to form Coenzyme A. If you ask about the role of coenzyme A other than production of energy and synthesis of fat, the answer is that it is involved in production of Acetyl Choline(neurotransmitter), porphyrin (a component of hemoglobin), and detoxification of drugs and alcohol.
Update: redness is almost gone. No new acne even after having desserts I couldn't enjoy before. Old pimples are in resolution. However, this regimen seems not to work well on cystic acne. I have a couple of those on my forehead that are still the same. Overall, I feel my face is not breaking anymore.
Starting the new year, I have adjusted my regimen to panthethine 450 mg q8hrs and L-Carnitine 500 mg daily in the mornings. I guess cysteine was too much for me. It increased my redness and dried my face too much. From a positive perspective, maybe it was a necessary flush I had to go through. Should I add methionine?
I discontinued crestor. I increased policosanol from 20 mgs to 40 mgs at nights (max dose is 80 mgs).Panthethine should be helping with my lipids as well. So I will wait and see my results on my next lipids blood work.
Your input will be highly appreciated
Thank you!
Hi Doc_007,
Glad to hear these news.
You can try methionine for a while and you're alert enough to discover any drawbacks early.
Do not forget that you use cysteine with pantethine and not pantothenic acid like I primarily recommended, however it is OK now because we are after the results only no matter how they are reached.
I'll be waiting for your feedback!
Yes I have been taking panthethine since December 24, 2011. I think 900 mgs of panthethine alone is enough to keep acne at bay. However, I have not discontinued L-carnitine yet. I'm taking 500 mgs only, though. By the way, what is the highest-safest daily dose of panthethine?
On the other hand, we know Methionine is an amino acid that we get from our diet especially meats. This amino acid is an excellent source of sulfur and the body uses sulfur to promote healthy hair, skin, and nail growth. Sulfur reduces liver fat and it also reduces cholesterol.
I'm thinking it would serve a double purpose for me considering that on December 31, I discontinued Crestor.
I will start Methionine on February 1, one pill a day.
What do you suggest: l-methionine or SAM-e?
Doc_007
900 mg of Pantethine is very sufficient.
SAM-e is more active than methionine specially in trans-sulfuration in case the body needs cysteine.
Thank you very much! I shall try to find SAM-e supplements soon.
By the way, I have noticed that hair is growing where it was not growing before and nails have grown faster lately. Do you think it was the result of the cysteine supplement alone? May panthethine alone have this effect too?
I am beginning to think panthethine has also implications in reducing hair sebum hence reducing common dandruff, seborrheic dermatitis and other similar conditions. What do you think? can you please elaborate on this biochemistry wise?
This is becoming very interesting my friend.
Doc_007
All your observations are right. Cysteine forms a considerable percentage of the protein forming the epidermis, i.e. Keratin.
To keep equilibrium between nutrients you take vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) with cysteine, taking Pantothenic acid alone in high doses induced hair thinning and falling in some cases, and this is because pantothenic acid captures a large amount of cysteine to form Coenzyme A, at the expense of keratin.
Pantethine alone could save cysteine from reacting with pantothenic acid to form pantethine, so it may have this effect too.
I have some more details to cover, and another question to ask.
For a little while I have tried using 500mg cysteine and 1000mg b5 4 times a day with good results, so then for almost 2 weeks I have tried 5 times a day instead of 4. The results have been better, not quite perfect, but better. So, attempting to get completely clear (or as close as possible) I tried increasing to 6 times a day of both. After a week or so, it seems as though it isn't working quite as well as it was with 5 times a day.
So my question is, is it possible that taking too much cysteine can have an opposite effect in some way? I know that b5, being a b vitamin, any extra that is unused is excreted out, but what about cysteine in this regard? Since it is an amino acid, how is an excess amount of it used in the body? Does the excess get excreted out, or will it be used for some purpose (perhaps keratin) that could actually work against the process of stopping acne?
Anyway, I am going to try using 500mg of cysteine 4 times a day and using 2 grams of b5 with each dose instead of 1, and see how that goes for a bit, but any info you can give me on this would be great. I feel like I'm getting closer to figuring this out, but I'm not quite there yet.
jhwilso1,
In fact, there are 20 amino acids that the body uses to form a huge number of enzymes and proteins, depicting the role of each amino acid requires a genetic map and a sophisticated research over a distracted period of time, so it is not easy to answer this question.
In your case you may stick with the best dose of cysteine which is around 2 g/day, and try to manipulate the dose of Vitamin B5 but easily, don't rush into extremes.
Thanks for your prompt response. One more question, did you experience faster hair and nail growth with Methionine when you used it in the past?
What about alpha lipoic acid? any effects on skin metabolism and health? thanks
Honestly I did not look at this effect in particular because I was completely devoted to its effect on acne, yet it is taken for granted that sulfur containing amino acids like Methionine, Cysteine and Cystine promote hair and nail growth.
As for Lipoic acid and the skin, yes it has an effect on skin health and metabolism and this is why I advice you not to include it in your regimen now. It has 2 S-H groups in the molecule, the same group in Cysteine, it may affect what is known as Redox potential of Sulfur containing molecules, and this may change their equilibrium and may lead to unpredicted results (side effects). At least not now.
I have just switched to a different brand of l-cysteine, it is nutrabio brand (you can check their website if you want).
They supposedly have a very high quality cysteine that is completely pure, and is also less expensive.
My question is that the twinlab cysteine I have been using says in the other ingredients that it also contains medium chain triglycerides, while the nutrabio cysteine does not.
What are medium chain triglycerides, and how will this effect the purpose I am using it for, which is boosting co-a? Will it still work well if it is pure l-cysteine?
Hi jhwilso1,
Medium chain glycerides (MCT) are the esters of medium chain (6-12 carbons) with glycerol.
Coconut oil is composed of approximately 66% medium-chain triglycerides. The milk fats of humans is largely made up of long-chain fatty acids. The milk fats of cows, sheep, and goats are rich in short-chain fatty acids. The milk fats of horses contain large amounts of medium-chain fatty acids.
MCTs passively diffuse from the GI tract to the portal system (longer fatty acids are absorbed into the lymphatic system) without requirement for modification like long-chain fatty acids or very-long-chain fatty acids. In addition, MCTs do not require bile salts for digestion. Patients that have malnutrition or malabsorption syndromes are treated with MCTs because they do not require energy for absorption, utilization, or storage.
They neither need energy nor L-Carnitine to be oxidized inside the mitochondria.
Some studies have shown that MCTs can help in the process of excess calorie burning. MCTs are also seen as promoting fat oxidation and reduced food intake.
So, is this still going to be useful in stimulating production of co-a? Is it better to have the MCT with the cysteine, or will it make much of a difference?
I have started taking the new cysteine today, will see how it goes.
But as far as co-a production, I thought that the only 3 ingredients for co-a were ATP, cysteine, and b5. This is correct right? Are medium chain triglycerides any part of that, or are they simply something that may be unecessary for the whole process?
ATP, Cysteine and B5 are involved in the molecule Coenzyme A which will be involved in oxidation of medium and long chain triglycerides. It's a matter of ease, MCT will be oxidized more easily.
As you said it is not necessary for the basic process. It is just a simpler fuel and it is not crucial in our case.
Also, the new cysteine says it is l-cysteine HCL monohydrate. Twinlab's says l-cysteine HCL. What is the difference between the two?
No difference at all. It's the method of preparation that leaves one molecule of water attached to the molecule, but it does not make any biological difference.
So far so good. I'm taking 5 grams b5 and 2.5 grams cysteine for about 4 weeks straight and almost clear again.
Why do you think it may be that too much cysteine can actually seem to hurt the process? I tried 6 grams b5 and 3 grams cysteine for about a week and it didn't seem to work quite as well.
How exactly does keratin work in the skin? Does too much keratin perhaps strain co-a levels in some way, or perhaps something else?
Just something I've wondered about that you may be able to shed more light on.
Anything said about that would be theoretical. The good news is that you found the dosage that achieves the results we are after.
Keratin is the protein that mostly forms the epidermis (the CORNIFIED part of the skin), cysteine plays an important role in its formation.
Hi elqalatawy, please help clear my doubt.
So your treatment above can reduce sebum effectively, 50% or more. Actually I'm now using skinb5 tablets, main ingredient is calcium pantothenate so it's same as pantothenic acid that you all saying here?
I on 3000mg (max 6 tablets skinb5 recommend) and result only slightly reduction sebum to no sometimes. So would I need buy pure pantothenic acid and add L-cysteine to boost coenzyme A effectiveness.
Currently I'm also on cysteine peptide and it's same as L-cysteine ? If not then consume cysteine peptide wouldn't contradict my regime.
Elqalatawy please help, everything scary to me feel like doing experiment on myself
Hi Gavin,
First of all, don't worry at all and everything will be okay.
If you allocate sometime to read comments of jhwilso1 here in this hub, you will see that s/he went around so many things, and the only thing that cleared their acne is cysteine and pantothenic acid.
There is something called Redox potential and it is delicate for Sulfur containing molecules like cysteine, so any other molecule containing sulfur may disturb the optimum required equilibrium. Cysteine peptide may contain other sulfur containing molecules like glutathione and lipoic acid.
Just use Pantothenic acid and Cysteine and everything will be OK.
Thank so much for your prompt reply, elqalatawy ^^,
Yes, I try not mixed others into my regime. I not really get it, i still have a lot of calcium panthothenate on hand, and do I still need to stock up panthothenic acid. The ingredient label state calcium panthothenate equal to panthothenic acid. So in general both is same thing, elqalatawy please help? I'm doubt why it's not work on me
And yes, elqalatawy, I had review all above comment before posting, not to wasting your time answering repeated ques. But I had ques regard coenzyme A supplement, do you came across anyone taken this supplement can do all the jobs by reduce sebum largely, rather than work on PA + l-cysteine. I started to feel ill mentally taking so many pill daily, sigh.
You are welcome Gavin.
Calcium Pantothenate is OK, but don't replace or add anything for L-Cysteine, just take the two of them.
I began taking some pantethine about 4 days ago along with b5 and cysteine, just out of curiosity to see how it would go. It would seem to make sense that to combine the two regimens would give the best overall results, and although I am close to clear, I would like to see if this can help to become completely clear
Here is the thing. This is now day 4 and I am just as dry and non oily as before, maybe even a little more so, but I have had a couple of small breakouts in the last 2 days. Not major ones, but still small breakouts.
Do you suppose this is a common occurance when boosting co-a levels higher? I will continue a little longer and see how it goes.
It is jarrow formulas pantethine.
Have you tried Pantethine alone? I don't like much of anything, rather it is better if we make some educated guesses.
What is not very obvious to me that you say that with old regimen you are close to clear, while with adding pantethine for 4 days you,ve got (a couple of small breakouts) and you will continue a little longer. My question is : what you are after?
I am after getting completely clear, consistently for some time. Using b5 and cysteine, I never really seem to be able to get completely clear, and solve the problem totally. I can only come very close.
I am trying to reach the point where I can go for a month or so, perhaps a little longer, with NO new acne, which is what we are all trying to achieve; consistently clear skin.
Why that is I have not figured out yet. B5 and cysteine definitely helps a lot, but perhaps it is just not generating quite enough co-a to completely rid the problem. The best thing I can think of is using the 2 best immediate precursors regimens, which is b5 plus cysteine, as well as pantethine.
I also don't like taking lots of different things, which is why I am trying to hone in on exactly what is needed, and nothing else.
Hi I am about start the pantothenic acid cysteine regimen and want to ask what is the best ratio of the two to take to get the best results?
thanks all
Hi Mat,
Thanks for the visit.
It is L-Cysteine 1 to Pantothenic acid 2, and cysteine does not exceed 2.5 g/day.
If we say you will take 1.5 gram cysteine you take 3 gram Pantothenic acid with them.
Ok, thanks for the quick reply! Sounds good.
I see where jhwilso1 asked about taking a larger amount of pantothenic acid than 2 to 1 ratio, is this helpful or not?
Just start with L-Cysteine 1/2 gram three times and L-Pantothenic acid 1 gram three times per day. We can increase the dose if we want to.
Ok thanks
I have good news to report. After a little over a week using pantethine along with b5 and cysteine, the initial breakouts went away quickly and the effects are intensifying. I am now even more dry than I was before and very close to completely clear!
However I do have one query though. Since back when I tried methionine for a bit, (about 2 months ago) I have a relatively small bump on my cheek that simply will not go away... It is literally the last bit of active acne on my whole face. It has dryed out into a scab numerous times and seemed like it was going away, but the scab always comes off eventually it is back to a small oily lump again.
I have never had a spot that has behaved this way before. Perhaps it is an infected pore in some way? I have tried putting numerous things on it, like using a warm washcloth on it for a bit to soften it, then applying green clay to it. Green clay is really great stuff. However the spot simply will not go away.
Any suggestions to help with this last bit of problem
are greatly appreciated.
jhwilso1,
Would you kindly describe this spot? Is it hard, soft, liquid, infected?
elqalatawy,
I am now taking pantothenic acid and NAC (N-acetly Cysteine). How much NAC do I take compared to regular Cysteine? Is it more or less? Thank you!
It is typically sort of soft and tender. After treating it for a couple of days it will often dry out and turn into a scab, but a couple of days later instead of the scab coming off and it going away, it returns to how it was, a sort of soft and tender lump.
I looked up some sypmtoms of folliculitis, thinking it might be that, and that is typically caused by incorrect shaving, which I'm very sure this is not that type of problem. I have been shaving for a long time and never anything like this has come up.
Earl,
It is the same nearly. Do not rush into a high dose regimen and start with a dose within i-1.5 gram per day.
jhwilso1,
Have you tried a scrub? just try sugar and glycerin, mix 1 teaspoon of each and rub the affected lesion ONLY.
Do not use anything on your clean face please.
I am waiting for your feedback.
Ok I will try that. At this point I am very clear and I don't use anything on my skin at all, only a daily shower and that is it.
Would using a warm water and salt mixture work, or would sugar and glycerin be better?
Try both, but I prefer scrub as it may remove this problematic spot.
By a scrub, what do you mean exactly?
I mean exfoliation to remove dead skin cells away.
It seems to have helped a little last night when I tried it. Not gone yet, but will see how its going after a few more days.
Do you know anything about if pantethine and b5+cysteine generate co-a in a different way from one another?
I have been reading around in several different places and it seems that the process works best when both are taken, because supposedly although they both reach co-a in the end, they reach that point in a different way, and break down oils differently; pantethine more focuses on cholesterol and triglycerides, b5 more on fatty acids.
I'm not exactly sure how much truth there is to this, but it seems to make sense, and so far it is working well for me.
WOW!! It seems that you will study Biochemistry!!
The more important point is that orally administered cysteine is submitted to a tight control by the liver, so that it ensures a small pool of free cysteine that is used in synthesis of Coenzyme A, through formation of phospho-panetheine.
Pantethine is the combination of 2 molecules of pantetheine which is a precursor of coenzyme a, at least
theoretically it increases formation of coenzyme a.
Do not forget to scrub only the affected area and nothing
more. Don't be tempted to scrub the whole face, at least for now until we get rid of acne related problems.
elqalatawy,
Thank you for the response. I stumbled across another post by you on your other hub page on this same topic. Here is what you said,
"The enzyme that is involved in the reaction catalyzes the reaction between Pantothenate and L-cysteine, it can not act on N-Acetyl-Cysteine because it has specific sites for the reactants, like the lock having a specific key."
So...can I or can't I use NAC instead of cysteine? I would like to use NAC but just want to make sure.
Thank you!
Hi Earl,
That is true and NAC is actually processed by the cell to produce L-Cysteine.
It's a matter of registration of a patent material.
You can use NAC, go ahead.
elqalatawy,
Ok, let me make sure I understand. Please correct me if I'm wrong. NAC will convert into regular L-Cysteine. L-Cysteine merges with Pantothenic acid to form Pantethine which combines with ATP to form co-enzyme A. Correct?
So, if NAC must first be processed by the cell to produce L-Cysteine, would you need more compared to just taking L-cysteine? Or will 1500mg of NAC still be sufficient?
Thank you!
It has only been 3 days but I think I can already see some change. I feel like I will need a slightly higher amount to really do the trick, though.
Now I am wondering whether to try 4 times a day, or stick with three and use more b5 with each cysteine dose. (I feel like jhwilso1...).
What is the composition of coenzyme-a exactly? Is there somewhere I can go to see, like how many molecules of cysteine bond with how many of b5 to trigger the process?
It would be nice to know, so I can know whether it will do any good at all to take more than a 2 to 1 ratio of b5 to cysteine, or if that is simply wasteful and won't really improve the results.
Hi Earl,
Yes 1500 mg is sufficient as a a start and then you see.
Hi Mat,
Just keep on the way you go and do not change a safe way.
You may ask after 1 week.
Hi all
I am about to purchase some b5 but was curious about whether to get time release b5 or not. Since cysteine is not a time-release supplement, would it not work better if the b5 was also not time-release, so they would absorb together better?
Hi John,
We do not like to deplete all cysteine present in the body to be directed to coenzyme A production. Cysteine has other functions in the body. Just take the regular form.
Hm, ok.
But concerning the effectiveness, b5 needs to meet with cysteine in the body to form coenzyme-a, correct?
Using time release b5, wouldn't that make it so that by the time the cysteine has already passed through your body, the b5 is still slow releasing, which would mean a bit of it is being wasted, right? It would work better if they both released in a similar fashion to meet in the body better and form more coenzyme-a?
I will try the regular type, but just trying to understand as best I can.
Free cysteine that is used to form coenzyme A is controlled
normally within a fixed pool, apart from dietary cysteine, so it is something like sustained release cysteine.
I see that there is at least one time release variety of cysteine on amazon, so it does indeed exist, but just to clarify, whatever type of b5 you use (time release or regular) you should use the same type of cysteine, correct? I don't want to beat a dead horse here, but I just want to understand all I can.
Dear John,
Take the regular form of both. You may revise comments of jhwilso1 as it included many dosage regimens.
Ok that sounds good to me.
Thanks
Concerning N-acetyl cysteine, is it different than taking l-cysteine, or will they basically give the same results?
As far as I know, N-acetyl cysteine must first be converted by the body to l-cysteine, but supposedly NAC is more bioavailable and absorbs better than regular l-cysteine?
What is the deal with these two supplements? Is there really much of a difference which you take, as far as boosting coenzyme-a is concerned?
Not that much. The postulated better absorption of NAC is controversial.
One other thing, jhwilso1 mentioned the medium chain triglycerides that were found in the "other ingredients" of twinlabs cysteine. I just found that the twinlab b5 also contains them. Is that a bad thing?
One of the main things that pantethine metabolizes is triglycerides, right, so wouldn't adding more hurt the process?
Medium Chain Triglycerides are good for the skin, they are more easily metabolized and they are abundant in coconut oil commonly used for the skin.
Triglycerides are always present in gross amounts, adding a few grams of a good form of triglycerides is not that big deal.
So, there is a good form and a bad form of triglycerides? Are the medium chain ones good, and the long chain not so good, because they are harder to metabolize?
Medium chain triglycerides are good for some people with mal-absoption syndrome, and they are easier to metabolize
yet they are fat.
So is it a bad thing to be giving the body more fat that needs to be metabolized?
This is kind of confusing....
Well anyhow I will try it for a while and see how it goes. It still seems weird to me how all this works though.
Don't worry, you can't even adjust your fat intake in diet by grams.
This is my last question about the MCTs, then I will just figure the rest out on my own...
In summary, would it be worth it to instead try to get pure b5 with nothing else in it, or is it pretty irrelevent to the big picture of coenzyme-a production that we are after?
I'm not sure why I am getting so hung up on this, I guess I just want to feel like I understand what's going on.
I even called twinlab earlier today and asked them about it, and they said it is a coating used on the capsules, and is only in trace amounts so it shouldn't affect it much.
They are right. I want you to look at the very wide picture, triglycerides belong to a macro-nutrient category and they are not measured in milligrams, and you will find them embedded in so many foods. The body needs them as well.
If you like to get another brand, go ahead.
It has been about a week and I am still seeing results! So far this is promising!
Does anyone know of a coenzyme-a conversion amount? Like, how much coenzyme-a is formed from 450mg of pantethine, or how much is formed from 500mg cysteine plus 1000mg b5? It would be handy to know that if anyone knows.
Also, I was wondering about this line taken from vilantae's website:
"Without excess skin oil (sebum) acne simply isnt possible, and none of the other secondary causes can have even the slightest effect."
Do you basically agree with that? It seems to make sense to me, at least, that if the body has adequate co-a levels, then acne simply is unable to develop, and you can't have acne.
Just wondered what others thought.
It is the stored fat (plug) that causes acne, this fat plug
is a result of changed composition of sebum, it causes accumulation of extra sebum in the skin pores. Yes it is excess oil that predisposes skin to formation of acne.
Co-A oxidizes both the plug and extra sebum converting them into energy.
I can now report Success!!!
The results from the b5 and cysteine plus pantethine have only gotten better, and the stubborn spot has now gone away. I am now clear!
jhwilso1,
Congrats!!!
About pantethine,I have been looking into it a little, and some sources say that b5 plus cysteine plus atp makes pantethine, and pantethine then converts to co-a.
Supposedly the first conversion to pantethine is much more elaborate than the pantethine to co-a conversion, and taking pantethine is very similar to actually taking co-a itself, since pantethine and co-a are not far apart biochemically. So, I am wondering, since pantethine is the direct precursor to co-a, is taking it all your body needs to produce co-a?
That seems to be the case, but I wanted to know what others thought about this. Interesting stuff.
Yes, this is the case.
So is it true that pantethine and co-a are pretty similar in a biochemical sense? You seem to know a lot about this type of thing, so I think you are the best to ask.
Thanks Mat.
Pantethine is a part of Co-A molecule but only Co-A can perform the biochemical reactions needed for the process.
Fatty acid oxidation and biosynthesis both start by ester formation of a fatty acid with Co-A.
Wow. I really feel like I have learned a lot from all of this. I want to tell everyone I see that has acne about all I have learned from here.
Good job jhwilso1 also!
So, from all of this it seems that the best overall thing to take for acne is pantethine, since a lack of co-a is the cause of all the problem, and pantethine gives you exactly that, more co-a. It seems to just be a matter of taking enough pantethine to eliminate acne, which may differ some from person to person.
Does that seem about right to you? It should really be called the acne cure, not pantethine, if you ask me.
Yes it is. It is that one may go around B5, Pantethine and Cysteine to overcome individual variation.
I have been decreasing my b5 dosage slowly and raising my pantethine dose over time, and now I am not taking any b5 and cysteine anymore. With just pantethine the results are still very good.
I have been wondering something theoretical about the coenzyme-a capsules though.
They are called "pure coenzyme-a" but why do they contain other ingredients besides pantethine? Isn't that the only precursor (therefore ingredient) to co-a? One would think that the ingredients of coenzyme-a would just be pantethine, and taking that would give you all the co-a you need, right?
Although taking just pantethine is working very well, I can't help but wonder why the other ingredients are included in the co-a capsules.
Hi jhwilso1,
Coenzyme-A capsules does not contain coenzyme-a, it contains Pantethine, Pantothenic acid, L-Cysteine, Calcium Pyruvate, Magnesium Malate and L-Acetyl Carnitine.
It is nearly what you were using until you used Pantethine alone. You don't have to change the way you follow now.
Coenzyme-A capsules give all the needed ingredients for formation of coenzyme-a.
So, what are the actual ingredients of coenzyme-a, if anyone really knows?
Hi, I am thinking of trying pantethine, it sounds very promising.
Reading around some, it seems that many people don't really see results using 900mg or so a day, so would it hurt to slowly increase the dose a little each week, until the acne is gone? I hate acne so much, I just want it to be gone...
As far as I know, pantethine is not dangerous or toxic, even if you are taking a lot, like 4 or 5 grams a day, although I don't think it will take that much.
Do you think that would be a safe, effective way to go with it, to start with 900mg or so and slowly increase until clear? I want to be safe, but even more so I want to finally be rid of acne!
Yes, start with 900 mg reaching to 1.5 g/day.
@jwilso1 - did you ever take any coenzyme-a? I've read the thread several time but it can be hard to follow. Exactly what were you taking at the end?
I tried 3g of Twin Labs B5 and 1.5g of Twin Labs L-Cysteine a day and I saw noticeable improvement within days. My skin went a bit taut but nothing major. I still had a few spots and there were some under the surface ones refusing to budge. Then after about 10 days i stopped getting the tautness and my acne came back same as before. I never missed a doseage and I'm still on the Twin Labs regime [this is my third week] but it isn't working.
I've ordered some coenzyme-a and I'm thinking of using Pantethine in place of B5. Ot maybe both together. Any thoughts? I'm not sure what ratios to change to.
If you could state the brands you were using it'll be helpful [I have some myprotein B5 and NAC indoors but unopened]. I prefer Twin Labs but it's pricey and no UK supplier I can find.
For anyone with dry skin, I can recommend Twin Labs Na-PCA thee only stuff that works for me. Used it for a decade. And iherb.com are the best overseas supplier I've found. Postage is only $4 for airmail to UK if you order over a certain amount [$6 otherwise]. Don't order over £15 worth or taxman might get you.
@jwilso1 - here's the list [scroll to bottom]. I guess you mean what's in the modulator matrix? I'm always suspicious of terms like this. And the stuff isn't cheap.
I see it's got pyruvate which elqalatawy recommend.
This link http://www.coenzyme-a.com/coenzymea.html as well as being a good informative read says that Pantothenic acid and Pantethine will not get same results. To quote:
"Some of our scientific research is based upon clinical studies in which research subjects were treated with 10-20 grams a day of Pantothenic Acid to assist their bodies in the production of Coenzyme-A. However, it is not Pantothenic Acid or Pantethine alone that produces Coenzyme-A in the human body. It is essential to understand that while Pantothenic Acid circulates in the blood in its pure vitamin form, it is stored in the cells of the body only as a component of Coenzyme-A. It is Coenzyme-A that initiates the chemical reactions within the cells of the body that involve Pantothenic Acid.
Your body needs to have a balanced combination of components that are used by the cells to manufacture and utilize Coenzyme-A; this is what our products contain."
Proprietary formula
Calcium Pyruvate 46 mg
Magnesium ( as dimagnesium malate) 20 mg
Coenzyme A Modulator Matrix-ITM1000mg
Pantethine Powder
Calcium Pyruvate
dimagnesium malate
Acetyl-L-Carnitine HCL
L-Cysteine
jhwilso1,
CoenzymeA capsules contain Pantethine, Pantothenic acid, L-Cysteine, Calcium Pyruvate, Magnesium Malate and L-Acetyl Carnitine.
I am using jarrow formulas pantethine, and am currently taking 5 450mg pills a day. I started with two a day and slowly worked up. I did not start to see noticeable results until I reached 5 a day.
It is still working very well st this point, but I would like to know how the coenzyme-a capsules work out for you. Keep us posted here on your progress.
AskLindaDavis 2 years ago
That's a great acne article, very informative and well written.
Thanks!